Microcontroller ... which one ??

Post by ~~ VerilogMan ~~
Hello,
I am thinking of buiying this graphic display.
http://www.crystalfontz.com/products/12864cp/index.html#CFAX12864CP1WGHTS
It has a 4 analog I/O for the touch screen, and 18 I/O (the specidications
are on the link "Data Sheet")
I have a VERY hard time trying to figure the best microcontroller to
interface it with a desktop computer on the serial port.
If you could take a look at http://dkc1.digikey.com/CA/PDF/C043/P4.html
(Microcontrollers section) and tell me wich one is the easiest / most
efficient, i would appreciate big time !
Thanks guys!

So what are you going to use it for? Pretty hard to help with this kind of
information.

~~ VerilogMan ~~

2004-11-23 23:32:17 UTC

Post by SQLit

Post by ~~ VerilogMan ~~
Hello,
I am thinking of buiying this graphic display.
http://www.crystalfontz.com/products/12864cp/index.html#CFAX12864CP1WGHTS
It has a 4 analog I/O for the touch screen, and 18 I/O (the
specidications
are on the link "Data Sheet")
I have a VERY hard time trying to figure the best microcontroller to
interface it with a desktop computer on the serial port.
If you could take a look at http://dkc1.digikey.com/CA/PDF/C043/P4.html
(Microcontrollers section) and tell me wich one is the easiest / most
efficient, i would appreciate big time !
Thanks guys!

So what are you going to use it for? Pretty hard to help with this kind of
information.

Ok , the microcontroller should interpret the touch on the screen and also
receive infos from the computer through the RS232 port
It's just an Graphic display, and it is touch screen. So pretty much it is
to send the places where it has been touched to the computer, and send the
infos to be displayed from the computer..

~~ SuperMan ~~

2004-11-26 04:19:52 UTC

Post by SQLit

Post by ~~ VerilogMan ~~
Hello,
I am thinking of buiying this graphic display.
http://www.crystalfontz.com/products/12864cp/index.html#CFAX12864CP1WGHTS
It has a 4 analog I/O for the touch screen, and 18 I/O (the
specidications
are on the link "Data Sheet")
I have a VERY hard time trying to figure the best microcontroller to
interface it with a desktop computer on the serial port.
If you could take a look at http://dkc1.digikey.com/CA/PDF/C043/P4.html
(Microcontrollers section) and tell me wich one is the easiest / most
efficient, i would appreciate big time !
Thanks guys!

So what are you going to use it for? Pretty hard to help with this kind of
information.

Airy R. Bean

2004-11-24 08:46:40 UTC

After playing around with one (admittedly on NEC's evaluation
kit which I then subsumed into a project for a client) I'd
strongly recommend the 32 bit RISC from NEC, the
V850ES series.

Unlike the ARM design which only has 16 GP registers,
the 850 has 32. From what I can make out, it seems to
be strongly relate to the previous MIPS range of
super-computers.

Post by ~~ VerilogMan ~~
I have a VERY hard time trying to figure the best microcontroller to
interface it with a desktop computer on the serial port.
If you could take a look at http://dkc1.digikey.com/CA/PDF/C043/P4.html
(Microcontrollers section) and tell me wich one is the easiest / most
efficient, i would appreciate big time !

~~ VerilogMan ~~

2004-11-26 03:47:00 UTC

Post by Airy R. Bean
After playing around with one (admittedly on NEC's evaluation
kit which I then subsumed into a project for a client) I'd
strongly recommend the 32 bit RISC from NEC, the
V850ES series.
Unlike the ARM design which only has 16 GP registers,
the 850 has 32. From what I can make out, it seems to
be strongly relate to the previous MIPS range of
super-computers.

Thanks, but I don't really know RISC ... : |

Dave VanHorn

2004-11-26 15:33:56 UTC

Post by ~~ VerilogMan ~~
Thanks, but I don't really know RISC ... : |

That's sort of nonsensical, don't you think?
RISC is not a language.
RISC is a marketing term, trying to make an advantage out of limited
instruction space.

Ex: The PIC is "risc", and the AVR is considered "CISC".
The Pic should be faster right?

At the same clock, the PIC takes four cycles to do anything, while most
instructions on the AVR are one cycle. The PIC clocks a bit faster than the
AVR, but nowhere near enough to make it up.
Barely 2x, and they'd need at least 4X.

Since the PIC has less instructions, a given function requires more
instructions to get done. Also, the PIC has a single working register,
where the AVR has 32, though the lower 16 are slightly limited. Where the
AVR can store many critical things in registers, and modify/test them in one
cycle, the PIC needs to load them into the W register (four cycles) test
(four cycles) then save them back if it was a modify, for another four
cycles.

So it would seem that the overwhelming advantage is to the "CISC" machine.

Remember, the limit case of RISC is a processor that has one "NOP"
instruction, but executes it infinitely fast.

~~ VerilogMan ~~

2004-11-26 16:44:14 UTC

Post by ~~ VerilogMan ~~
Thanks, but I don't really know RISC ... : |

That's sort of nonsensical, don't you think?
RISC is not a language.
RISC is a marketing term, trying to make an advantage out of limited
instruction space.
Ex: The PIC is "risc", and the AVR is considered "CISC".
The Pic should be faster right?
At the same clock, the PIC takes four cycles to do anything, while most
instructions on the AVR are one cycle. The PIC clocks a bit faster than
the AVR, but nowhere near enough to make it up.
Barely 2x, and they'd need at least 4X.
Since the PIC has less instructions, a given function requires more
instructions to get done. Also, the PIC has a single working register,
where the AVR has 32, though the lower 16 are slightly limited. Where
the AVR can store many critical things in registers, and modify/test them
in one cycle, the PIC needs to load them into the W register (four cycles)
test (four cycles) then save them back if it was a modify, for another
four cycles.
So it would seem that the overwhelming advantage is to the "CISC" machine.
Remember, the limit case of RISC is a processor that has one "NOP"
instruction, but executes it infinitely fast.

Hey thanks for the reminder,
I did not pay attention. I thought it was "another architecture" using less
and different instructions.
I guess CISC is way better for me anyways. !

Alex Gibson

2004-11-24 06:57:41 UTC

If you know verilog, why not use verilog and a cpld ?

http://www.fpga4fun.com/TextLCDmodule.html
http://www.fpga4fun.com/GraphicLCDpanel.html

Alex Gibson

2004-11-24 13:43:34 UTC

Just make sure what ever you choose has enough IO.

Your going to need 24 IO at minimum + other functions you may want
like serial(rs232) connection so - 22 for the screen , 2 for usart tx and rx
assuming you want to use the touchscreen ?
+ maybe a temp sensor ? (is this for a fan controller/pc monitor ?)

also what are you going to display / run on the screen ?
Will it need updating often ?

pic , avr, msp430, arm7(philips , sharp etc) , 8051, scenix
or even basic stamp

Either pick one you have some knowledge of
or one that has the cheapest and easiest to use tools

Also what package do you want to work with ?
dip or surface mount ?

What language are you looking to us ?
asm , c , basic , forth , pascal ?

pic has free forth , pascal(jal) and c compilers(limited versions of
commerical product)
asm is free

avr has free forth c and basic compilers(bascom avr lite - limited version)
asm is free

same with msp430 , 8051 and arm7(made by a varitety of manufacturers).

Depending on your requirements
maybe a atmega16, or 32 or 162
or pic16f877/877A
pic18f452 , 448 , 442 , 458

some cheap boards here www.futurlec.com
http://www.futurlec.com/BasicControllers.shtml
http://www.futurlec.com/DevelopmentBoards.shtml
http://www.futurlec.com/TrainingBoards.shtml

even Philips lpc2106 or lpc2129
http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/pip/LPC2106.html
http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/pip/LPC2129.html

For pics
www.piclist.com
www.winpicprog.co.uk

Avr
www.avrfreaks.com
http://instruct1.cit.cornell.edu/courses/ee476/FinalProjects/

Alex

~~ VerilogMan ~~

2004-11-26 03:46:34 UTC

Post by ~~ VerilogMan ~~
Hello,
I am thinking of buiying this graphic display.
http://www.crystalfontz.com/products/12864cp/index.html#CFAX12864CP1WGHTS
It has a 4 analog I/O for the touch screen, and 18 I/O (the
specidications are on the link "Data Sheet")
I have a VERY hard time trying to figure the best microcontroller to
interface it with a desktop computer on the serial port.
If you could take a look at http://dkc1.digikey.com/CA/PDF/C043/P4.html
(Microcontrollers section) and tell me wich one is the easiest / most
efficient, i would appreciate big time !
Thanks guys!

Ok, the touchscreen is like an input for the RS232 port. And it is a 4 wire
system. And there are 18 other inputs... So for sure , there are 22 , + more
? yes i want to use RS232 too.

Post by Alex Gibson
also what are you going to display / run on the screen ?
Will it need updating often ?

The computer will send through the RS232 port the display. It won't change
often at all.
This is what I want to do :
The display is divided for example in 4 sections. In each row there is like
a text. For example :
First row: "Hello This is..."
Next row "I love electronics" ,
Next row "I love you"
Next row "I love hockey"

and one last row with and arrow.

What I want to do :
When I am typing something for example, in wordpad, and when I hit with my
finger the first row, the whole text "Hello This is.." get copied ...
Or if I do "I love electronics" the whole text get copied ...
AND when I hit the arrow, it will go to another set of quotes.

Now i thought this was gonna be easy ... But no :)
So as you see it does not a lot of updating at all .. just when you hit the
next row I guess.

Post by Alex Gibson
pic , avr, msp430, arm7(philips , sharp etc) , 8051, scenix
or even basic stamp
Either pick one you have some knowledge of
or one that has the cheapest and easiest to use tools

That is exactly why I asked the question on the forum ,is to try to figure
out which one would be the easiest ! : /
I don't know any of these controllers. I want the one doing the best the job
and the easiest for me. I know we can use C , or ASM , ....
I know programming, (C, ASM ...) . I think C is the way to go ? For the
librairies and all that ?

Post by Alex Gibson
Also what package do you want to work with ?
dip or surface mount ?

Now I never heard of this terminilogy ? Does that mean that the controller
comes without anything, or with a borad or something ?

Post by Alex Gibson
What language are you looking to us ?
asm , c , basic , forth , pascal ?

I would avoid asm, but c, basic, forth, pascal are pretty much alike ... I
guess C has the most suport ?

Post by Alex Gibson
pic has free forth , pascal(jal) and c compilers(limited versions of
commerical product)
asm is free
avr has free forth c and basic compilers(bascom avr lite - limited version)
asm is free
same with msp430 , 8051 and arm7(made by a varitety of manufacturers).
Depending on your requirements
maybe a atmega16, or 32 or 162
or pic16f877/877A
pic18f452 , 448 , 442 , 458
some cheap boards here www.futurlec.com
http://www.futurlec.com/BasicControllers.shtml
http://www.futurlec.com/DevelopmentBoards.shtml
http://www.futurlec.com/TrainingBoards.shtml
even Philips lpc2106 or lpc2129
http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/pip/LPC2106.html
http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/pip/LPC2129.html
For pics
www.piclist.com
www.winpicprog.co.uk
Avr
www.avrfreaks.com
http://instruct1.cit.cornell.edu/courses/ee476/FinalProjects/

Someone already adised me to use AtMega 128 ... do you think it's good
depending of everything I said above ?
Thank you a lot for your help

Alex Gibson

2004-11-26 12:49:14 UTC

Post by Alex Gibson
Just make sure what ever you choose has enough IO.
Your going to need 24 IO at minimum + other functions you may want
like serial(rs232) connection so - 22 for the screen , 2 for usart tx and rx
assuming you want to use the touchscreen ?
+ maybe a temp sensor ? (is this for a fan controller/pc monitor ?)

Ok, the touchscreen is like an input for the RS232 port. And it is a 4 wire
system. And there are 18 other inputs... So for sure , there are 22 , + more
? yes i want to use RS232 too.

Post by Alex Gibson
also what are you going to display / run on the screen ?
Will it need updating often ?

The computer will send through the RS232 port the display. It won't change
often at all.
The display is divided for example in 4 sections. In each row there is like
First row: "Hello This is..."
Next row "I love electronics" ,
Next row "I love you"
Next row "I love hockey"
and one last row with and arrow.
When I am typing something for example, in wordpad, and when I hit with my
finger the first row, the whole text "Hello This is.." get copied ...
Or if I do "I love electronics" the whole text get copied ...
AND when I hit the arrow, it will go to another set of quotes.
Now i thought this was gonna be easy ... But no :)
So as you see it does not a lot of updating at all .. just when you hit the
next row I guess.

I think you need to start with a more simple project
then build on it once you know more.

something like sending text to a text mode lcd via rs232
do that as a couple of part project

Post by Alex Gibson
pic , avr, msp430, arm7(philips , sharp etc) , 8051, scenix
or even basic stamp
Either pick one you have some knowledge of
or one that has the cheapest and easiest to use tools

That is exactly why I asked the question on the forum ,is to try to figure
out which one would be the easiest ! : /

It depends on your background, what you are trying to do ?

how you are going to get started either buying or making your own board ?

what electronics knowledge ?

Post by ~~ VerilogMan ~~
I don't know any of these controllers. I want the one doing the best the job
and the easiest for me. I know we can use C , or ASM , ....
I know programming, (C, ASM ...) . I think C is the way to go ? For the
librairies and all that ?

Which asm ?

Most libraries you need come with the compilers

Post by Alex Gibson
Also what package do you want to work with ?
dip or surface mount ?

Now I never heard of this terminilogy ? Does that mean that the controller
comes without anything, or with a borad or something ?

DIP - dual inline package, mounts thruough holes in the pcb
so is called through hole

surface mount means it is mounted on the suface of the pcb

pcb - printed circuit board

Depends what you want, either buy a premade board with the microcontroller
of your choice or buy the bits and put your own together.

Post by Alex Gibson
What language are you looking to us ?
asm , c , basic , forth , pascal ?

I would avoid asm, but c, basic, forth, pascal are pretty much alike ... I
guess C has the most suport ?

Asm and c. C doesn't suit all microcontrollers though.
Some weren't designed to be programmed in c.

Up to you to use or pick the language you want to use.

Even if you choose to use c you really still need to know
some asm for the chip you are using.

Post by ~~ VerilogMan ~~
Someone already adised me to use AtMega 128 ... do you think it's good
depending of everything I said above ?
Thank you a lot for your help

It can manage what you want but you would need to
buy a premade board if you don't have much electronics experiance.
Surface mount package

www.bdmicro.com make some nice atmega128 boards
can see others at avrfreaks

Avr's of which the atmega128 is one, have free tools
ide for windows , + free c compiler (gcc port) even ada compiler(gcc port)

free avr forth,
then quite a few commerical compilers

www.avrfreaks.com compilers etc

http://www.atmel.com/products/avr/ to get the datasheets and app notes for
the atmega128

Alex

~~ VerilogMan ~~

2004-11-28 03:20:40 UTC

Ok, the touchscreen is like an input for the RS232 port. And it is a 4 wire
system. And there are 18 other inputs... So for sure , there are 22 , + more
? yes i want to use RS232 too.

Post by Alex Gibson
also what are you going to display / run on the screen ?
Will it need updating often ?

I think you need to start with a more simple project
then build on it once you know more.
something like sending text to a text mode lcd via rs232
do that as a couple of part project

Well the problem is that I already proposed this project... So it's a bit
too late for me to go back ! :(

Post by Alex Gibson
pic , avr, msp430, arm7(philips , sharp etc) , 8051, scenix
or even basic stamp
Either pick one you have some knowledge of
or one that has the cheapest and easiest to use tools

That is exactly why I asked the question on the forum ,is to try to figure
out which one would be the easiest ! : /

It depends on your background, what you are trying to do ?
how you are going to get started either buying or making your own board ?
what electronics knowledge ?

See I just thought that all you neede was the controller and that you had to
attach it to the connections of the LCD module ...
But apparently I need a board and everything with different composants !!
On one side it is good ... I feel like I am learning *a lot* each time I
read you guys. But on the other hand I realize the harder it is ! :)

http://www.controlanything.com/manuals/GraphicDisplayChips.pdf on this
website this guy has done it for graphic lcds but there is not the
touchscreen part
So I pretty much discovered that you needed more than just a microcontroller
! I felt like buying what this guy was sellinh and try to adapt it for what
I wanted to do ... ButI don't think it is possible

Which asm ?

Intel X86

Post by Alex Gibson
Most libraries you need come with the compilers

Post by Alex Gibson
Also what package do you want to work with ?
dip or surface mount ?

Now I never heard of this terminilogy ? Does that mean that the controller
comes without anything, or with a borad or something ?

DIP - dual inline package, mounts thruough holes in the pcb
so is called through hole
surface mount means it is mounted on the suface of the pcb
pcb - printed circuit board
Depends what you want, either buy a premade board with the microcontroller
of your choice or buy the bits and put your own together.

I think I will go with the first choice man ! :)

Post by Alex Gibson
What language are you looking to us ?
asm , c , basic , forth , pascal ?

I would avoid asm, but c, basic, forth, pascal are pretty much alike ... I
guess C has the most suport ?

Asm and c. C doesn't suit all microcontrollers though.
Some weren't designed to be programmed in c.
Up to you to use or pick the language you want to use.
Even if you choose to use c you really still need to know
some asm for the chip you are using.

I do know asm... but I want to use it as less as i can ...

Post by ~~ VerilogMan ~~
Someone already adised me to use AtMega 128 ... do you think it's good
depending of everything I said above ?
Thank you a lot for your help

It can manage what you want but you would need to
buy a premade board if you don't have much electronics experiance.
Surface mount package
www.bdmicro.com make some nice atmega128 boards
can see others at avrfreaks
Avr's of which the atmega128 is one, have free tools
ide for windows , + free c compiler (gcc port) even ada compiler(gcc port)
free avr forth,
then quite a few commerical compilers
www.avrfreaks.com compilers etc
http://www.atmel.com/products/avr/ to get the datasheets and app notes
for the atmega128

Hey, thanks these websites are amazing.... they even have serial
interface.... !
Definitvely my choice is to go with a board now I think. If I have to just
do the programming part and not the interfacing, that would be really a big
lift from my shoulders.
I went on the ATMEGA128 boards page... And these ones looked interesting:

Flexit
MB-128-XXX
Mega128-Dev-MMC
MEGABRAIN128
PROBOmega128
STK 501
Mega128-Net
adn all the BD MICRO

Which one do you think is the best ? With my amateur eyes the BDMICRO looks
nice and same with the STK501...
which one would you ? If you had to make a choice right now ? (that's what I
have to do right now :) !
I guess I would want the one with the most support. and price/quality wise ?
I think this one http://www.bdmicro.com/mavric-iib/ is quite good !

Again, thanks for all your help, all of your help is really making me
progress quickly!

Dave VanHorn

2004-11-28 04:18:47 UTC

You should look at what each offers.

I have a Mavric, and it's a very well done board.

~~ VerilogMan ~~

2004-11-28 06:09:58 UTC

Post by Dave VanHorn
You should look at what each offers.
I have a Mavric, and it's a very well done board.

Heh , yea I think I am gonna go with one of them :)
thx

~~ VerilogMan ~~

2004-11-29 01:04:29 UTC

Post by Dave VanHorn
You should look at what each offers.
I have a Mavric, and it's a very well done board.

I actually looker for the support part and the STK501 seems to have more
suport ! It has assembler program from ATMEL for example but not the MAVRIC
...
so which one would you go with ??

Dave VanHorn

2004-11-29 01:25:47 UTC

The STK boards are general purpose development tools.
The Mavric is a designed for just the one processor.

Depends on what you want.

Both will work with AVR Studio, but with the Mavric, you'll need a
programmer, like an AVRISP.

If you want a little board that you can embed in your project, then the
mavric is a better choice.
If you want to work with many different AVRs, then the STK is better.

mark thomas

2004-12-08 06:43:49 UTC

The artist formerly known as Dave VanHorn wrote:

|
| Both will work with AVR Studio
|

Is that free software?

--
MT

Mark Jones

2004-12-08 15:58:03 UTC

Post by mark thomas
|
| Both will work with AVR Studio
|
Is that free software?

See http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools_card.asp?tool_id=2725
or http://www.avrfreaks.net

~~ SuperMan ~~

2004-12-13 01:23:58 UTC

Post by mark thomas
|
| Both will work with AVR Studio
|
Is that free software?

See http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools_card.asp?tool_id=2725
or http://www.avrfreaks.net

Ok thanks guys I just received both of the stuff... gotta read some
stuff....
I will contact you guys soon ;)
Cheers
And merry xmas !!

~~ VerilogMan ~~

2004-11-29 01:04:44 UTC

Post by Dave VanHorn
You should look at what each offers.
I have a Mavric, and it's a very well done board.

I actually looker for the support part and the STK501 seems to have more
suport ! It has assembler program from ATMEL for example but not the MAVRIC
...
so which one would you go with ??

Nico Coesel

2004-11-24 17:18:19 UTC

If you want to program it in C, be sure to pick one with 8, 16 or 32
bit registers and a single adress space (like the Hitachi H8 or the
Texas instruments MSP430 series) otherwise you will find yourself
writing all kinds of (non portable) functions which are already in the
standard C library.

--
Reply to ***@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
Bedrijven en winkels vindt U op www.adresboekje.nl

~~ VerilogMan ~~

2004-11-26 03:46:02 UTC

Post by Nico Coesel

Hey,
What about the ATMega128 ?
Can I use the existing librairies ? I want to write the less code possible.
The problem is that I instead of doing a project proposed by the school...
wanted to do something of my own ... but I think I aimed a bit too high !!
:( I thought it would have been easier to hook a graphic display to a
computer !
So I want the easiest way possible ! :)

Dave VanHorn

2004-11-26 15:26:31 UTC

The Mega128 is a very capable processor.
You are unlikely to find canned libraries to talk to your display, but for
all the on-chip peripherals, yes.

~~ VerilogMan ~~

2004-11-26 16:45:34 UTC

Post by Dave VanHorn
The Mega128 is a very capable processor.
You are unlikely to find canned libraries to talk to your display, but for
all the on-chip peripherals, yes.

So can i sue directly the chip ? or do I have to create a board and all that
??

Dave VanHorn

2004-11-26 16:58:40 UTC

Post by ~~ VerilogMan ~~
So can i sue directly the chip ? or do I have to create a board and all that

You'll need a board, but you could use the STK-500 with the 501 adaptor.
Look it up at www.digikey.com

This is a prototyping system, and chip programmer all in one.
With this, you'd just have to connect your devices to the STK board.

Nico Coesel

2004-11-26 18:48:34 UTC

Post by Nico Coesel

Hey,
What about the ATMega128 ?
Can I use the existing librairies ? I want to write the less code possible.

I wouldn't recommend it. It has a separate program and data memory
space. This give problems when using constant strings in program
memory and normal strings in data memory. The standard functions can't
tell from which memory the string should be fetched.

--
Reply to ***@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
Bedrijven en winkels vindt U op www.adresboekje.nl

Dave VanHorn

2004-11-26 22:30:01 UTC

Post by Nico Coesel
I wouldn't recommend it. It has a separate program and data memory
space. This give problems when using constant strings in program
memory and normal strings in data memory. The standard functions can't
tell from which memory the string should be fetched.

WTF?? I haven't heard it causing any problems for tons of users in C and
assembler..

Spehro Pefhany

2004-11-26 22:59:03 UTC

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:30:01 -0500, the renowned "Dave VanHorn"

WTF?? I haven't heard it causing any problems for tons of users in C and
assembler..

It's just a minor irritation. Same deal with PICs and 8051s, of
course.

At a low level you have to do something like tell the function where
the data is secreted by adding a bit or two to the pointer. The
function then uses a different instruction to read the data from RAM
vs ROM vs. (maybe) EEPROM. At source-code level, it's pretty
transparent, most of the time, IME.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
***@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Ken Smith

2004-11-27 17:35:55 UTC

Post by Spehro Pefhany
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:30:01 -0500, the renowned "Dave VanHorn"

WTF?? I haven't heard it causing any problems for tons of users in C and
assembler..

It's just a minor irritation. Same deal with PICs and 8051s, of
course.

In 8051 land you can combine PSEN/ and RD/ for external accesses if you
really want to.

Using the 8051 with ASM and dealing with strings is usually very easy
because strings that are constants, and strings that change almost never
will swap roles.

The Keil C for 8051 seems to do not too bad at dealing with the issue.
They also allow banking of the code space. I usually prefer to write my
8051 code in ASM so I haven't used the C that much. Folks I work with
have used the C tools and lived to tell of it so it can't be all that bad.

--
--
***@rahul.net forging knowledge

Nico Coesel

2004-11-26 23:46:07 UTC

WTF?? I haven't heard it causing any problems for tons of users in C and
assembler..

That's true... as long as you don't touch the standard C library and
write everything yourself. I recently found myself trying to get a
command line interpreter -which uses the standard C library a lot- to
work on a 8051 proto board to write some values in an I2C chip. In the
end I looked over the assembler and found there is no way around it
except for re-writing the entire program taking the memory areas into
account.

Suddenly it occured to me that writing code for an 8051 wasn't
efficient. Don't get me wrong here; I have been using 8051 micro's for
years. The code isn't portable at all which prohibits re-using the
code and writing, compiling & testing code on a PC. It can only be
used on an 8051. Thats not what I wanted -at all-.

Anyway, since I already spend 2 days on it, I decided to abandon the
8051 board and use a board with a Hitachi H8/300 micro on it. I got it
running within 3 hours (from cutting the CPU part from an existing
scrap board, mounting an RS232 transceiver on it to getting the source
compiled & loaded into the EEPROM).

The bottom line is, if you want to use C as a truly portable (and
therefore efficient) language, stick with the micro's that have a
single memory address space (a separate I/O space is not a problem).

--
Reply to ***@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
Bedrijven en winkels vindt U op www.adresboekje.nl

Ken Smith

2004-11-27 17:43:43 UTC

In article <***@news.planet.nl>,
Nico Coesel <***@puntnl.niks> wrote:
[....]

Post by Nico Coesel
Suddenly it occured to me that writing code for an 8051 wasn't
efficient. Don't get me wrong here; I have been using 8051 micro's for
years. The code isn't portable at all which prohibits re-using the
code and writing, compiling & testing code on a PC. It can only be
used on an 8051. Thats not what I wanted -at all-.

You can reuse the code. If you write good code for an 8051 you can use it
on any other 8051. I have a set of routines that have been put into 6
very different products. The standard RS232, 32 bit math, a command line
hardware debugger and a huge number of utility routines have been used in
each.

You can get 8051 similators for the PC so you really can run the code on a
PC. It just runs a little slower than normal. Its sort of like using XP.
If you have a 1GHz PC you are not too likely to notice the reduced
performance.

--
--
***@rahul.net forging knowledge

Nico Coesel

2004-11-27 22:21:08 UTC

Post by Ken Smith
[....]

You are missing my point. If I write a piece of code, I want to be
able to use it on another platform (unless it deals with specific
hardware ofcourse).

--
Reply to ***@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
Bedrijven en winkels vindt U op www.adresboekje.nl

Ken Smith

2004-11-27 22:19:15 UTC

Post by Nico Coesel

Post by Ken Smith
[....]

You are missing my point. If I write a piece of code, I want to be
able to use it on another platform (unless it deals with specific
hardware ofcourse).

No, I fully understand your point. But you said that the code can't be
"reused". I was arguing against that specific point in what you wrote.

I was not suggesesting that the fact that you wanted to run the same code
on different machines is a sign of a sick mind. Nor was I questioning the
manhood of anyone who doesn't code in assembly. Others may argue such
points as whether type checking is leading to laziness and stupidity in
programmers or whether software without line numbers can really be called
software. I made no such statements in my posting.

--
--
***@rahul.net forging knowledge

CJunk

2004-12-08 02:19:40 UTC

I am not much help with that. One thing I know. is BECARFULL buying from
Digi Key

I am in australia and they charged me $87US($120AUD) for a Digi Key card
board Box. the parts where around $30US.

I have gotten things from the US in the post for shit loads cheaper airfare
than that. Digi key did end up giving me half the shipping cost back,
after trying to rip me off. so in the end I still paid $45US for a card
board box. legal scammers. Basically they sell card board boxes and throw
in a few electronic components. But that might only be if you live in an
other country. maybe they have a mentality of 'screw people in other
countries besides the USA'

anyway....be carefull

Mark Jones

2004-12-08 15:56:07 UTC

Post by CJunk

I am not much help with that. One thing I know. is BECARFULL buying from
Digi Key
I am in australia and they charged me $87US($120AUD) for a Digi Key card
board Box. the parts where around $30US.
I have gotten things from the US in the post for shit loads cheaper airfare
than that. Digi key did end up giving me half the shipping cost back,
after trying to rip me off. so in the end I still paid $45US for a card
board box. legal scammers. Basically they sell card board boxes and throw
in a few electronic components. But that might only be if you live in an
other country. maybe they have a mentality of 'screw people in other
countries besides the USA'
anyway....be carefull

Hi, I'm from the US and I've ordered many things from Digikey and
have never had a problem. Maybe that is an exception, but what exactly
do you mean they "charged you for the box." Are you saying that
Digikey charged $87 for shipping, or "shipping and handling", or
"handling," or "Excise tax," what?

I can't imagine shipping a parcel from the US to Australia would
cost more than $25- unless you ordered a 500-pound item? Where exactly
is the error?

That said, I have heard of some exporting issues with Digikey.
Thanks to our wonderful leadership and legal system, every package
that enters or exits the US is subject to extreme scrutiny. I heard
where someone in Canada was ordering some parts to make hobby kits and
Digikey wrote them a legal letter asking 20 questions about the exact
nature of the hobby kits. Digi-key would not ship until they recieved
a valid, legal response. We can argue about the intent, or if anyone
actually follows another country's laws. But the problem might not be
Digikey's fault per se, they could have simply been following the
current export laws.

Some would say, with all the terrorist activity, that the US might
be taking a defensive posture towards other nations. I wouldn't say
that's so personally. I have always considered Australia a beautiful
and friendly place. So I doubt you or Australia is being singled out
specifically.

So if anything, join with the rest of the world in badmouthing the
US, and understand that unless Digi-key made a gross error, they were
probably following yet another stupid law.

-M

CJunk

2004-12-11 05:50:57 UTC

Post by ~~ VerilogMan ~~
Hello,
I am thinking of buiying this graphic display.

http://www.crystalfontz.com/products/12864cp/index.html#CFAX12864CP1WGHTS

Post by ~~ VerilogMan ~~
It has a 4 analog I/O for the touch screen, and 18 I/O (the

specidications

Post by ~~ VerilogMan ~~
are on the link "Data Sheet")
I have a VERY hard time trying to figure the best microcontroller to
interface it with a desktop computer on the serial port.
If you could take a look at http://dkc1.digikey.com/CA/PDF/C043/P4.html
(Microcontrollers section) and tell me wich one is the easiest / most
efficient, i would appreciate big time !
Thanks guys!

I am not much help with that. One thing I know. is BECARFULL buying from
Digi Key
I am in australia and they charged me $87US($120AUD) for a Digi Key card
board Box. the parts where around $30US.
I have gotten things from the US in the post for shit loads cheaper airfare
than that. Digi key did end up giving me half the shipping cost back,
after trying to rip me off. so in the end I still paid $45US for a card
board box. legal scammers. Basically they sell card board boxes and throw
in a few electronic components. But that might only be if you live in an
other country. maybe they have a mentality of 'screw people in other
countries besides the USA'
anyway....be carefull

Hi, I'm from the US and I've ordered many things from Digikey and
have never had a problem. Maybe that is an exception, but what exactly
do you mean they "charged you for the box." Are you saying that
Digikey charged $87 for shipping, or "shipping and handling", or
"handling," or "Excise tax," what?
I can't imagine shipping a parcel from the US to Australia would
cost more than $25- unless you ordered a 500-pound item? Where exactly
is the error?
That said, I have heard of some exporting issues with Digikey.
Thanks to our wonderful leadership and legal system, every package
that enters or exits the US is subject to extreme scrutiny. I heard
where someone in Canada was ordering some parts to make hobby kits and
Digikey wrote them a legal letter asking 20 questions about the exact
nature of the hobby kits. Digi-key would not ship until they recieved
a valid, legal response. We can argue about the intent, or if anyone
actually follows another country's laws. But the problem might not be
Digikey's fault per se, they could have simply been following the
current export laws.
Some would say, with all the terrorist activity, that the US might
be taking a defensive posture towards other nations. I wouldn't say
that's so personally. I have always considered Australia a beautiful
and friendly place. So I doubt you or Australia is being singled out
specifically.
So if anything, join with the rest of the world in badmouthing the
US, and understand that unless Digi-key made a gross error, they were
probably following yet another stupid law.
-M

Actually Digi Key threw the questions at me also at first.......that wasnt
much, just following procedure.

the items weighed no more that 9 ounces...but they charged me for 2lbs
which they say is the reason for the extra expense. Of course no body would
actually like paying so much for a cardboard box.. I know I have gotten
things much heavier and much less expensive in shipping. My original post
said 'be carefull' thats all. ... The parts I bought cost around $37.00
us and the box cost $87.00 anyone with half a brain would know to at
least double check with the customer first to see if they understand that
that is what they will be charged for shipping. At least have some sort of
customer relations. anyway...like I said....be carefull to the original
poster. If they live in US, probably no problem

Mark Jones

2004-12-11 15:22:20 UTC

Post by ~~ VerilogMan ~~
Hello,
I am thinking of buiying this graphic display.

http://www.crystalfontz.com/products/12864cp/index.html#CFAX12864CP1WGHTS

Post by ~~ VerilogMan ~~
It has a 4 analog I/O for the touch screen, and 18 I/O (the

specidications

I am not much help with that. One thing I know. is BECARFULL buying

from

Post by ~~ VerilogMan ~~
Digi Key
I am in australia and they charged me $87US($120AUD) for a Digi Key card
board Box. the parts where around $30US.
I have gotten things from the US in the post for shit loads cheaper

airfare

Post by ~~ VerilogMan ~~
than that. Digi key did end up giving me half the shipping cost back,
after trying to rip me off. so in the end I still paid $45US for a

card

Post by ~~ VerilogMan ~~
board box. legal scammers. Basically they sell card board boxes and

throw

Post by ~~ VerilogMan ~~
in a few electronic components. But that might only be if you live in

Post by ~~ VerilogMan ~~
other country. maybe they have a mentality of 'screw people in other
countries besides the USA'
anyway....be carefull

Hi, I'm from the US and I've ordered many things from Digikey and
have never had a problem. Maybe that is an exception, but what exactly
do you mean they "charged you for the box." Are you saying that
Digikey charged $87 for shipping, or "shipping and handling", or
"handling," or "Excise tax," what?
I can't imagine shipping a parcel from the US to Australia would
cost more than $25- unless you ordered a 500-pound item? Where exactly
is the error?
That said, I have heard of some exporting issues with Digikey.
Thanks to our wonderful leadership and legal system, every package
that enters or exits the US is subject to extreme scrutiny. I heard
where someone in Canada was ordering some parts to make hobby kits and
Digikey wrote them a legal letter asking 20 questions about the exact
nature of the hobby kits. Digi-key would not ship until they recieved
a valid, legal response. We can argue about the intent, or if anyone
actually follows another country's laws. But the problem might not be
Digikey's fault per se, they could have simply been following the
current export laws.
Some would say, with all the terrorist activity, that the US might
be taking a defensive posture towards other nations. I wouldn't say
that's so personally. I have always considered Australia a beautiful
and friendly place. So I doubt you or Australia is being singled out
specifically.
So if anything, join with the rest of the world in badmouthing the
US, and understand that unless Digi-key made a gross error, they were
probably following yet another stupid law.
-M

Actually Digi Key threw the questions at me also at first.......that wasnt
much, just following procedure.
the items weighed no more that 9 ounces...but they charged me for 2lbs
which they say is the reason for the extra expense. Of course no body would
actually like paying so much for a cardboard box.. I know I have gotten
things much heavier and much less expensive in shipping. My original post
said 'be carefull' thats all. ... The parts I bought cost around $37.00
us and the box cost $87.00 anyone with half a brain would know to at
least double check with the customer first to see if they understand that
that is what they will be charged for shipping. At least have some sort of
customer relations. anyway...like I said....be carefull to the original
poster. If they live in US, probably no problem

Still, like you say it would be very bad business practice to "hide"
any extra fees like this, if that's really what happened. I'm not sure
why Digi-key or any other company would charge such an outlandish
amount unless it was just some kind of weird error or
misunderstanding. If it happened to me, I'd write the company and ask
them to explain the charges in detail. (Postal mail is considered
"official correspondence" in the US.) It's not like Digi-key has the
lowest prices anyways, they should have free shipping. I just ordered
some one-off parts from Hong Kong and the shipping and handling was
$12 - why on earth would it cost 4x that for an Australian?

Better luck next time, mate.

-M

~~ SuperMan ~~

2004-12-13 01:25:55 UTC

Post by CJunk

Post by ~~ VerilogMan ~~
Hello,
I am thinking of buiying this graphic display.
http://www.crystalfontz.com/products/12864cp/index.html#CFAX12864CP1WGHTS
It has a 4 analog I/O for the touch screen, and 18 I/O (the
specidications
are on the link "Data Sheet")
I have a VERY hard time trying to figure the best microcontroller to
interface it with a desktop computer on the serial port.
If you could take a look at http://dkc1.digikey.com/CA/PDF/C043/P4.html
(Microcontrollers section) and tell me wich one is the easiest / most
efficient, i would appreciate big time !
Thanks guys!

I am not much help with that. One thing I know. is BECARFULL buying from
Digi Key
I am in australia and they charged me $87US($120AUD) for a Digi Key card
board Box. the parts where around $30US.
I have gotten things from the US in the post for shit loads cheaper airfare
than that. Digi key did end up giving me half the shipping cost back,
after trying to rip me off. so in the end I still paid $45US for a card
board box. legal scammers. Basically they sell card board boxes and throw
in a few electronic components. But that might only be if you live in an
other country. maybe they have a mentality of 'screw people in other
countries besides the USA'
anyway....be carefull

Thanks I did not buy it from them , but from BDmicro.net :)

Warren Bryant

2004-12-23 22:35:50 UTC

Post by ~~ SuperMan ~~

Post by CJunk

Post by ~~ VerilogMan ~~
Hello,
I am thinking of buiying this graphic display.
http://www.crystalfontz.com/products/12864cp/index.html#CFAX12864CP1WGHTS
It has a 4 analog I/O for the touch screen, and 18 I/O (the
specidications
are on the link "Data Sheet")
I have a VERY hard time trying to figure the best microcontroller to
interface it with a desktop computer on the serial port.
If you could take a look at http://dkc1.digikey.com/CA/PDF/C043/P4.html
(Microcontrollers section) and tell me wich one is the easiest / most
efficient, i would appreciate big time !
Thanks guys!

I am not much help with that. One thing I know. is BECARFULL buying from
Digi Key
I am in australia and they charged me $87US($120AUD) for a Digi Key card
board Box. the parts where around $30US.
I have gotten things from the US in the post for shit loads cheaper airfare
than that. Digi key did end up giving me half the shipping cost back,
after trying to rip me off. so in the end I still paid $45US for a card
board box. legal scammers. Basically they sell card board boxes and throw
in a few electronic components. But that might only be if you live in an
other country. maybe they have a mentality of 'screw people in other
countries besides the USA'
anyway....be carefull

Thanks I did not buy it from them , but from BDmicro.net :)

Digikey, Mouser and most of chip distributors pack in the same fashion
so you'd have the same complaint with most of them. IC companies pack
them that way for a reason.

Stuart

2007-09-20 21:33:07 UTC